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Thread: Black Watch pictures from my collection.

  1. #1171
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    Could be HLI Ron

  2. #1172
    Senior Member mike4279's Avatar
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    Possibilities:
    1. TA battalion post-WW1 because of the presence of collar badges;
    2. 9th Battalion HLI post WW1 also because of collar badges;
    3. 13th, 42nd, or 73rd Battalions CEF during Great War.

    The collar badges are too blurred to distinguish between St. Andrew, C over 13, C over 42, or Maple Leaf.

    Mike

  3. #1173
    Senior Member ronmarsden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike4279 View Post
    Possibilities:
    1. TA battalion post-WW1 because of the presence of collar badges;
    2. 9th Battalion HLI post WW1 also because of collar badges;
    3. 13th, 42nd, or 73rd Battalions CEF during Great War.

    The collar badges are too blurred to distinguish between St. Andrew, C over 13, C over 42, or Maple Leaf.

    Mike
    Thanks MIke, I think the five button tunics rule out the Canadians.
    Ron.

  4. #1174
    Senior Member mike4279's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmarsden View Post
    Thanks MIke, I think the five button tunics rule out the Canadians.
    Ron.
    Ron......While some Canadian 7 button jackets remained in use throughout the war, the preponderance of the CEF after 1915 were issued with British 5-button jackets in most cases with Canadian general service buttons. While I am not necessarily voting for the CEF as the subjects in your photo, in my opinion the 5-button jackets alone do not disqualify the Canadians. Indeed, I have two such 5-button jackets in my collection, one from the 13th Bn and the other from the 42nd.

    Mike

  5. #1175
    Administrator Chalky's Avatar
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    From the Black Watch of Canada:

    Although there is strong evidence of the Canadian Regiment wearing the red hackle prior to deploying for the First World War, the Black Watch battalions of the Canadian Expeditionary Force-the 13th, 42nd, and 73rd Battalions CEF-did not immediately wear the hackle overseas. According to Col. P.P. Hutchison, author of Canada's Black Watch: The First Hundred Years (1962), "The Royal Highlanders of Canada had not thought they were entitled to do so overseas, at least until they had won their spurs in actual battle" (p.91). After the 13th Battalion's magnificent stand at 2nd Ypres, and the exploits of all three battalions at the Somme, there was little doubt that the Royal Highlanders had proven themselves. Accordingly, the war diary of the 13th Battalion dated 16 November 1916 states that "as many men as possible were fitted out with Balmorals and Red Hackles an honour which they greatly appreciated." A year later, on 30 November 1917, the war diarist of the 42nd Battalion recorded that "the Battalion, pursuant to a request received some time prior from the 1st Bn of Imperial Black Watch, adopted the Red Hackle as part of its head-dress."

  6. #1176
    Senior Member mike4279's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chalky View Post
    From the Black Watch of Canada:

    Although there is strong evidence of the Canadian Regiment wearing the red hackle prior to deploying for the First World War, the Black Watch battalions of the Canadian Expeditionary Force-the 13th, 42nd, and 73rd Battalions CEF-did not immediately wear the hackle overseas. According to Col. P.P. Hutchison, author of Canada's Black Watch: The First Hundred Years (1962), "The Royal Highlanders of Canada had not thought they were entitled to do so overseas, at least until they had won their spurs in actual battle" (p.91). After the 13th Battalion's magnificent stand at 2nd Ypres, and the exploits of all three battalions at the Somme, there was little doubt that the Royal Highlanders had proven themselves. Accordingly, the war diary of the 13th Battalion dated 16 November 1916 states that "as many men as possible were fitted out with Balmorals and Red Hackles an honour which they greatly appreciated." A year later, on 30 November 1917, the war diarist of the 42nd Battalion recorded that "the Battalion, pursuant to a request received some time prior from the 1st Bn of Imperial Black Watch, adopted the Red Hackle as part of its head-dress."
    If they are Canadians in the photo, the above puts some limits on the dating at one end. On the earlier end, these soldiers are wearing Tam O'Shanters. This bonnet began to replace previously issued balmorals and glengarries in late Spring 1915. By this time the 13th Bn was already in France, and the 42nd Bn had just arrived in England in June. So, all of this provides some rough dating IF the men are CEF.

    Chalky and Ron......Do you have any information on when and if the Territorial battalions switched to the red hackle during the Great War? Is it possible that some battalions continued to wear the Star badge on the TOS into the 1920s?

    Mike
    Last edited by mike4279; 27th January 2017 at 20:35.

  7. #1177
    Senior Member ronmarsden's Avatar
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    Sorry Mike, I'm not too good with uniform questions. But what about that rifle it does not look like a Ross used by the Canadians?
    Ron.

  8. #1178
    Senior Member mike4279's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmarsden View Post
    Sorry Mike, I'm not too good with uniform questions. But what about that rifle it does not look like a Ross used by the Canadians?
    Ron.
    Ron.....I am not good on questions about arms. Nonetheless, the rifle in the photo does look like a SMLE. My understanding is that the Ross rifle was withdrawn from frontline service by 1916 in favor of the SMLE. If this is correct, then I do not think that the SMLE in the OP is a discriminator.

    Mike

  9. #1179
    Senior Member mike4279's Avatar
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    Ron
    Regarding the matter of Territorial battalions wearing the hackle in the TOS, I have read through this thread on the GWF initiated by you where a number of BW photos have been posted: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/fo...ch-battalion/&. While this information is not totally conclusive, it appears that all battalions were wearing the hackle in the TOS, some with the Star badge, by the end of the Great War.

    From this I would be inclined to conclude that your photo shows CEF soldiers during the War from either the 13th or 42nd Battalions (73rd had a Maple Leaf badge) in the time window mid-1915 through end 1917 or men from the 9th HLI circa 1920s.

    Mike
    Last edited by mike4279; 28th January 2017 at 18:51.

  10. #1180
    Senior Member ronmarsden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike4279 View Post
    Ron
    Regarding the matter of Territorial battalions wearing the hackle in the TOS, I have read through this thread on the GWF initiated by you where a number of BW photos have been posted: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/fo...ch-battalion/&. While this information is not totally conclusive, it appears that all battalions were wearing the hackle in the TOS, some with the Star badge, by the end of the Great War.

    From this I would be inclined to conclude that your photo shows CEF soldiers during the War from either the 13th or 42nd Battalions (73rd had a Maple Leaf badge) in the time window mid-1915 through end 1917 or men from the 9th HLI circa 1920s.

    Mike
    Thanks Mike, due to the shortness of two of the men I will settle on HLI.
    Ron.

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